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mj_toronto8

Active member
I realize my question probably has a complicated answer. I am looking for information on how the Spartans met their demise. They were once mighty soldiers and a powerful (were they a city-state) - but that all ended. How?

I know that powerful empires, kingdoms, city-states - it all comes to an end eventually. That's the way history is. I want to study the ending for Sparta. I heard that it was a combination of factors. Wars taking a toll, not being able to sustain the lifestyle that gave them so much success, etc. Any resources you can share so I can do my research are most appreciated, as well.
 
I have head some conflicting stories. Some blame the wars and conflicts they were involved in. Others simply say the lifestyle they had was unsustainable. Some also believe that it kind of got destroyed from within, as outside influences started to affect the culture. It is really hard to know. Maybe it was a combination.
 
I have head some conflicting stories. Some blame the wars and conflicts they were involved in. Others simply say the lifestyle they had was unsustainable. Some also believe that it kind of got destroyed from within, as outside influences started to affect the culture. It is really hard to know. Maybe it was a combination.
Issues of ESCHATOLOGY -- the beginning and end of something -- are unresalvable. A conjecture: Need is the mother of invention. A certain educational system was created in Sparta to fit the military superiority ambitions of the leaders; after its achievement OR failure, it became unnecessary... and the whole culture collapsed. Now start looking for details, which I do not possess.
 
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Learning about the history of the Olympics

It's an Olympics year so I decided to learn a little bit about it.

Specifically, I'm drawn to its roots in Greece, where it all began. The tales from Olympia, where athletes from city-states across Ancient Greece competed, not just for glory but for the favor of the gods, paint a vivid picture of society's value system and cultural priorities at the time.

Yet, despite the bits and pieces of information I've gathered, I realize there's so much more depth and nuance to understand about how these games influenced, and were influenced by, Greek society and beyond. From the types of events that were held, the athletes who competed, to the very ethos that powered these competitions - each element seems to carry its own story.

Greek Independence Day History

Greek Independence Day is coming up! I thought I would share a bit that I know about the history. Please chime in with corrections or anything to add!
  1. The Spark of Revolution: Greek Independence Day marks the day in 1821 when the Greeks began their revolt against the Ottoman Empire, a state that had controlled Greece for nearly 400 years. This revolt was influenced by the surge of nationalism throughout Europe and inspired by the Enlightenment ideals of liberty, equality, and fraternity.
  2. A Poet’s Declaration: The revolution officially began after Bishop Germanos of Patras raised the Greek flag at the Monastery of Agia Lavra in Peloponnese, symbolizing the call to arms. However, it was rumored that the war of independence was actually declared a few days earlier by Alexandros Ypsilantis, a Greek national hero, in the Danubian Principalities.
  3. International Support: The Greek fight for independence was not just a local effort; it garnered substantial international support from prominent figures such as Lord Byron from Britain, who notably spent his own money and later died in Greece, contributing to the Greek cause. This international backing was crucial for the morale of the Greek fighters and helped in diplomatic efforts later on.
  4. The Battle of Navarino: A pivotal point in the Greek War of Independence was the Battle of Navarino in 1827, where the combined fleets of Britain, France, and Russia defeated the Ottoman and Egyptian fleets. This naval battle marked a significant turning point that led to the eventual independence of Greece.
  5. Recognition and Autonomy: Greek Independence was formally recognized in 1830 by the Treaty of London. However, full sovereignty and the delineation of the Greek borders were not achieved until later. It allowed the foundation of the modern Greek state, under the governance of King Otto from Bavaria.

Athens and the creation of democracy

I've been thinking about Athens and how it's the birth of democracy. I wondered if other societies had experimented with the concepts or if Athens was unique? Does anyone know? I know that there's been some evidence that other societies experimented with community leadership, but none had a true democracy like what Athens developed.

It was unique in developing a system where a significant portion of its inhabitants could participate directly in decision-making processes. This early form of democracy was largely initiated under the leadership of Cleisthenes in 508/507 BC. His reforms reorganized the population into ten tribes based on their residence rather than lineage, promoting a broader and more inclusive political engagement.

In this Athenian democracy, citizens had the right to attend the Assembly (Ekklesia), where they could speak and vote on legislation and executive decisions. The Council of Five Hundred (Boule), selected by lot for each of the ten tribes, proposed legislation and handled daily affairs. This lottery system for public office sought to prevent power monopolies and encourage civic participation.

I know that this work truly influenced other democratic governments through the world!

Feel free to chime in with your thoughts- I find this stuff interesting.

History of the Greek bailouts/financial crisis?

I'm reaching out to tap into our collective knowledge regarding a significant episode in recent economic history — the Greek financial crisis and the bailouts that followed. This period, marked by severe economic downturns, austerity measures, and complex international negotiations, has had long-lasting implications not only for Greece but for the European Union as a whole. Some things:
  1. Origins: What were the primary causes that led to the Greek financial crisis? How did Greece's economic conditions prior to the crisis contribute to its severity?
  2. Bailout Measures: Could someone explain the specifics of the bailout agreements? How were the terms negotiated, and what were the conditions placed on Greece in exchange for the financial assistance?
  3. Impact on Greece and the EU: What have been the short and long-term effects of the bailouts on the Greek economy and its citizens? Additionally, how has this crisis influenced the policies and economic strategies within the broader European Union?
The reason I am asking is that I got into a debate with someone before having my facts straight and the conversation didn't go well for me lol.
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