Greek Traditions Community

What is the difference between a Baptism and The Sacrament of Chrismation?

1 - 5 of 5 Posts
D

dubai_suzie

Active member
Anyone have insight on this?
 
dubai_suzie said:
Anyone have insight on this?
Click to expand...
It's called "chrismation" relatively to the Orthodox Church, a ritual adopted by the Catholic Church and is called "cresima" in Italian. In both cases, the key concept is Chrisma or Anointing with blessed oil whereby the anointed person receives the Holy Ghost and his gifts (wisdom etc.) An online article says that in the early Church, there was an immediate succession of baptism, chismation, and eucharistic partaking. However, I have not found any cogent explanation why there should be a chrismation at all after baptism which supposedly restores a person to the original state of grace. //Originally it was adults that were baptised, etc. When they started baptising babies and fathers were not present, some person was chosen to take the place of a father (called "compare" in Italian). The baby is asked various questions and either the father or the compare answers for him: he acts by proxy. Quod quaeris? (What are you seeking? -- Salutem aeternam (eternal salvation). What do you believe? -- I believe in God almighty... //Then the baptism (either by immersion or by pouring water) is performed.// When a youngster comes of age, around puberty, he is asked to personally confirm his faith, wherefore, in English, chrismation is called Confirmation; he becomes a Christian by his own choice rather than by proxy. This is my opinion. Once I heard or read a stupid alternative: The anointing makes one a soldier of Christ... hence, in medieval history, a Templar (technically called Miles Christi -- a soldier of Christ, instituted by Bernard of Clairveaux, who sent a small troup to the conquered Jerusalem in order to find the lost Ark of the Covenant, but this is a different story).
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: paharo45
amygdalE said:
It's called "chrismation" relatively to the Orthodox Church, a ritual adopted by the Catholic Church and is called "cresima" in Italian. In both cases, the key concept is Chrisma or Anointing with blessed oil whereby the anointed person receives the Holy Ghost and his gifts (wisdom etc.) An online article says that in the early Church, there was an immediate succession of baptism, chismation, and eucharistic partaking. However, I have not found any cogent explanation why there should be a chrismation at all after baptism which supposedly restores a person to the original state of grace. //Originally it was adults that were baptised, etc. When they started baptising babies and fathers were not present, some person was chosen to take the place of a father (called "compare" in Italian). The baby is asked various questions and either the father or the compare answers for him: he acts by proxy. Quod quaeris? (What are you seeking? -- Salutem aeternam (eternal salvation). What do you believe? -- I believe in God almighty... //Then the baptism (either by immersion or by pouring water) is performed.// When a youngster comes of age, around puberty, he is asked to personally confirm his faith, wherefore, in English, chrismation is called Confirmation; he becomes a Christian by his own choice rather than by proxy. This is my opinion. Once I heard or read a stupid alternative: The anointing makes one a soldier of Christ... hence, in medieval history, a Templar (technically called Miles Christi -- a soldier of Christ, instituted by Bernard of Clairveaux, who sent a small troup to the conquered Jerusalem in order to find the lost Ark of the Covenant, but this is a different story).
Click to expand...
Where did you get this from? I would love to read more :)
 
I am sorry I am unable to cite written sources. My mention of Italian words and matters are due to the fact that I was born and raised in Italy. (In my high school in Rome, we studied Latin, classical Greek, Greek literature in translation, a modern foreign language, in my case French and then English.) Especially later, I made researches into many fields of occasional interest and, for instance, I read the words that are used during baptism in the Latin rite. I learned about ancient Roman customs and practices, such as a father's proxy [on behalf] function: if a child destroys somebody's property, his father has to pay for the damages, etc. Especially for "chrismation" as one of the received sacraments, I learned from the just consulted Wikipedia. I mentioned the Templars incidentally but unnecessarily. Many years ago, I researched extensively the Templars and, to begin with, tried of find the real causes of the Crusades and the occupation of Jerusalem in 1099; I used 4 videotapes by British researchers (Hamilton; Lincoln) about the Ark, Rennes-le-chateau, the Sauniere priest, etc. [I prepared an article -- a sort of linguistic detective story -- and posted it in a now defunct Yahoo Community.] / One thing I had thought of adding above: The English equivalent of It. "compare" [or "cumpa`" in some dialects] is "godfather" but, through some movies, this word now means "leader/chief of a mafia family". The name "mafia or maffia" was derived in Sicily from "mapsios" (insensitive), which became corrupted into "maffios[o]" -- to designate a certain blackmailing or criminal person. (That's my own etymology.)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: paharo45
amygdalE said:
I am sorry I am unable to cite written sources. My mention of Italian words and matters are due to the fact that I was born and raised in Italy. (In my high school in Rome, we studied Latin, classical Greek, Greek literature in translation, a modern foreign language, in my case French and then English.) Especially later, I made researches into many fields of occasional interest and, for instance, I read the words that are used during baptism in the Latin rite. I learned about ancient Roman customs and practices, such as a father's proxy [on behalf] function: if a child destroys somebody's property, his father has to pay for the damages, etc. Especially for "chrismation" as one of the received sacraments, I learned from the just consulted Wikipedia. I mentioned the Templars incidentally but unnecessarily. Many years ago, I researched extensively the Templars and, to begin with, tried of find the real causes of the Crusades and the occupation of Jerusalem in 1099; I used 4 videotapes by British researchers (Hamilton; Lincoln) about the Ark, Rennes-le-chateau, the Sauniere priest, etc. [I prepared an article -- a sort of linguistic detective story -- and posted it in a now defunct Yahoo Community.] / One thing I had thought of adding above: The English equivalent of It. "compare" [or "cumpa`" in some dialects] is "godfather" but, through some movies, this word now means "leader/chief of a mafia family". The name "mafia or maffia" was derived in Sicily from "mapsios" (insensitive), which became corrupted into "maffios[o]" -- to designate a certain blackmailing or criminal person. (That's my own etymology.)
Click to expand...
This is so interesting thank you, I think I may take your information and do a bit more research on Wikipedia. I wish I had learned so much in school just like you, the European education system is far superior, especially in terms of language and culture.
 
1 - 5 of 5 Posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

JOIN THE DISCUSSION AND READ OTHER GREEK INFO:

Ideas for Celebrating the New Month - Kalo Mina

Growing up, I heard my family say this all the time when there was a new month. I finally started paying attention to the tradition and ritual of saying it.

Kalo Mina actually means "Good Month" but my family took it a step further. We developed the habit of doing something special as a family to celebrate.It depends which day it falls. Some things we've done:

- Brunch - We do this if it falls on a weekend.
- Dinner - Going out to dinner is great any time of the year!
- Journaling - We've done family journaling parties, sitting together reflecting on the month. Sometimes we read aloud what we write (depends how the month went LOL)
- Goals - No matter if we do anything, like go out to dinner or brunch, we always sit and review our goals for the month together.

Greek Naming Traditions?

I have noticed that in Greece, there are some traditions associated with naming their children. Although some Greek families in the United States have done this, many have seemed to lose the traditions.

Does anyone know what some of these traditions are? I am helping a friend name his upcoming child... Here's some of what I have learned:

1. Firstborn daughter names after maternal grandmother
2. Firstborn son named after paternal grandfather
3. Firstborn son named after father

Those are the ones I have figured out. I don't know what is traditional from Greece and what has just been made up amongst Greeks in the US.

Advice about making Greek coffee

I've developed a fascination with Greek culture and cuisine, and one aspect I'm particularly eager to explore is Greek coffee. I've heard that it's a unique and delicious brew, but I'm not quite sure how to make it at home.

I understand that Greek coffee is traditionally prepared using a special pot called a briki, but beyond that, I'm a bit lost. What type of coffee grounds should I use, and how finely should they be ground? Are there any specific brands or blends that are favored for making Greek coffee?

I'm also curious about the brewing process itself. Is there a particular technique for achieving that rich, foamy texture that Greek coffee is known for? And what about serving suggestions? Are there any traditional accompaniments or customs that I should be aware of?

Thanks in advance!

Learning about hospitality in Greece

I was trying to explain to some non-Greek friends about hospitality in Greece. I feel like it's next level, but how do you explain it?

Could anyone help me explain any of the following:
  • Traditional welcome gestures in Greece
  • Common household customs when visiting a Greek home
  • Etiquette for showing appreciation to Greek hosts
  • Any specific do's and don'ts that a foreigner should be aware of

Tips for Learning and Teaching Greek

I know how to speak Greek okay, but I am not great at it. I want to brush up on my skills, and I also want to teach some of my family members. I am good enough at it to the learn the basics. I am looking for advice, but I've also compiled some ideas:

1. Spend an extended period of time in Greece

There’s no better way to learn Greek than to immerse yourself in the language and culture of Greece. If you have the opportunity, consider spending an extended time in Greece, studying or working, taking a sabbatical, or just exploring the country. Living in Greece can help you understand the nuances of the language, such as the different accents, dialects, and slang that are used. You’ll also have the chance to practice your Greek with locals, watch Greek TV or films, and read Greek books or newspapers. I would imagine this is the best way to learn fast!

2. Use a language program

If you can’t travel to Greece or you prefer a more structured approach to learning Greek, consider using a language program. There are many language programs available online or in your local area, ranging from self-paced courses to interactive classes. Some popular language programs for Greek include Rosetta Stone, Duolingo, and Pimsleur. From what I understand these are all great options and I can learn at my own pace.

3. Take classes

Taking classes is another excellent way to learn Greek, especially if you prefer face-to-face interaction and feedback. You can find Greek language classes in community colleges, universities, language schools, or private tutors. Taking classes can help you improve your Greek skills, such as listening, speaking, reading, and writing. You’ll have a teacher who can guide you through the learning process, answer your questions, and give you homework or assignments that challenge you. You’ll also have classmates who share your passion for Greek and can practice with you.

4. Find ways to immerse yourself outside of Greece

Even if you can’t go to Greece or attend classes, you can still immerse yourself in Greek in your daily life. One way is to find Greek-speaking communities or events in your area, such as cultural centers, festivals, or meetups. You can also use online resources to connect with Greek speakers, such as language exchange websites, social media groups, or chat apps. Listening to Greek music, watching Greek videos or podcasts, or reading Greek literature can also help you familiarize yourself with the sounds and patterns of the language.

Honestly, I plan to try all 4 - whatever I can do. I think it will all help.
Share and discuss Greek traditions related to Greek weddings, christenings, dance & holidays!

WorldwideGreeks.com is a free online forum community where people can discuss Greek food, travel, traditions, history and mythology.
Join Worldwide Greeks here!

JOIN COMMUNITY FOR FREE

LOGIN TO YOUR ACCOUNT
Back
Top