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amygdalE

Active member
In many parts of the world many people or magicians attempted to avert evil by either using amulets or uttering commanding dispelling words. In my native town (founded by Italic Greeks [Throurioi] in 204 B.C., in southern Italy, as I mentioned before) there is a magical spell , which I learned there before moving to New York, but it is in corrupt Latin form, while the local dialect is a bundle of Greek, corrupt Latin, and corrupt Italian words. Its contents make me suppose that it is a late version of a Greek spell:
"uottu e nove, fore mal'uocchiu" literally = "eight and nine, outside/away [be] the evil eye".
Fore = Latin Fore
Mal'uocchiu = male uocchiu < Lat. Malis/Male + Oculus
8 e 9 mean nothing to me, but I have an hypothesis: those words are an invocation to the 8 Chthonic gods and the 9 Celestial or Olympian gods -- not so classified by Hesiod, but probably by Dorians.
The Celestial gods would be , as in the oldest myths, Ouranos and Gaia, plus, from later myths, Selene or Artemis, Ares, Hermes, Zeus, Aphrodite, Chronos, Helios or the Solar Apollo. The Chthonic [terrestrial and underground] gods would be Hades, Poseidon [of fresh and salty waters], the triple-goddess
Hekate [originally the One Below, Khthonie herself; Hekate Phosphoros in Hades; but also identified with Selene/Artemis], the Chthonic Apollon or [Thessalian] Haplos, and two others: Demeter, the mother of grain vegetation, personified as Kore, and Kore, who after Hades' abduction, was identified with Persephone.
So it seems.
 
Last edited:

amygdalE

Active member
In many parts of the world many people or magicians attempted to avert evil by either using amulets or uttering commanding dispelling words. In my native town (founded by Italic Greeks [Throurioi] in 204 B.C., in southern Italy, as I mentioned before) there is a magical spell , which I learned there before moving to New York, but it is in corrupt Latin form, while the local dialect is a bundle of Greek, corrupt Latin, and corrupt Italian words. Its contents make me suppose that it is a late version of a Greek spell:
"uottu e nove, fore mal'uocchiu" literally = "eight and nine, outside/away [be] the evil eye".
Fore = Latin Fore
Mal'uocchiu = male uocchiu < Lat. Malis/Male + Oculus
8 e 9 mean nothing to me, but I have an hypothesis: those words are an invocation to the 8 Chthonic gods and the 9 Celestial or Olympian gods -- not so classified by Hesiod, but probably by Dorians.
The Celestial gods would be , as in the oldest myths, Ouranos and Gaia, plus, from later myths, Selene or Artemis, Ares, Hermes, Zeus, Aphrodite, Chronos, Helios or the Solar Apollo. The Chthonic [terrestrial and underground] gods would be Hades, Poseidon [of fresh and salty waters], the triple-goddess
Hekate [originally the One Below, Khthonie herself; Hekate Phosphoros in Hades; but also identified with Selene/Artemis], the Chthonic Apollon or [Thessalian] Haplos, and two others: Demeter, the mother of grain vegetation, personified as Kore, and Kore, who after Hades' abduction, was identified with Persephone.
So it seems.
ANCIENT GREEK MAGIC, WITCHCRAFT, SPELLS AND CURSES
 
Last edited:

amygdalE

Active member
In many parts of the world many people or magicians attempted to avert evil by either using amulets or uttering commanding dispelling words. In my native town (founded by Italic Greeks [Throurioi] in 204 B.C., in southern Italy, as I mentioned before) there is a magical spell , which I learned there before moving to New York, but it is in corrupt Latin form, while the local dialect is a bundle of Greek, corrupt Latin, and corrupt Italian words. Its contents make me suppose that it is a late version of a Greek spell:
"uottu e nove, fore mal'uocchiu" literally = "eight and nine, outside/away [be] the evil eye".
Fore = Latin Fore
Mal'uocchiu = male uocchiu < Lat. Malis/Male + Oculus
8 e 9 mean nothing to me, but I have an hypothesis: those words are an invocation to the 8 Chthonic gods and the 9 Celestial or Olympian gods -- not so classified by Hesiod, but probably by Dorians.
The Celestial gods would be , as in the oldest myths, Ouranos and Gaia, plus, from later myths, Selene or Artemis, Ares, Hermes, Zeus, Aphrodite, Chronos, Helios or the Solar Apollo. The Chthonic [terrestrial and underground] gods would be Hades, Poseidon [of fresh and salty waters], the triple-goddess
Hekate [originally the One Below, Khthonie herself; Hekate Phosphoros in Hades; but also identified with Selene/Artemis], the Chthonic Apollon or [Thessalian] Haplos, and two others: Demeter, the mother of grain vegetation, personified as Kore, and Kore, who after Hades' abduction, was identified with Persephone.
So it seems.
I haven't found anything about "eight and nine", but some Ancient Greek lexicons refer to Nine [Ennea] as a sacred number, which was used in connection with the Nine Judges [of some unspecified Supreme Court], the Nine Muses, etc. I still think that originally Nine was the count of the aforementioned celestial gods, a sacred number.
 

amygdalE

Active member
I haven't found anything about "eight and nine", but some Ancient Greek lexicons refer to Nine [Ennea] as a sacred number, which was used in connection with the Nine Judges [of some unspecified Supreme Court], the Nine Muses, etc. I still think that originally Nine was the count of the aforementioned celestial gods, a sacred number.
I still maintain this, but the sacredness of NINE was undoubtedly known also from other contexts, which are mentioned in various lexicons. In fact, I have figured out that the "nine judges" must be the nine archons instituted in many city-states after the middle of the 7th century B.C. They were magistrates who assumed the functions of former kings: religious, military, and JUDICIAL. // {When Thourioi in South Italy was repopulated by Hellenes sent by Pericles, the sophist Protagoras was put in charge of the political [city-] organization. The New Thourioi, my native town, undoubtedly inherited the gods and the political organization of the ancestral Thourioi... and the linguistic sacred Nine.}
 

amygdalE

Active member
I still maintain this, but the sacredness of NINE was undoubtedly known also from other contexts, which are mentioned in various lexicons. In fact, I have figured out that the "nine judges" must be the nine archons instituted in many city-states after the middle of the 7th century B.C. They were magistrates who assumed the functions of former kings: religious, military, and JUDICIAL. // {When Thourioi in South Italy was repopulated by Hellenes sent by Pericles, the sophist Protagoras was put in charge of the political [city-] organization. The New Thourioi, my native town, undoubtedly inherited the gods and the political organization of the ancestral Thourioi... and the linguistic sacred Nine.}
In my online searches, I found out that EIGHT is a sacred or powerful number, in many cultures. For instance, China had the eight Immortals, but not much information about the ancient Greek culture, except for the fact that 8 as a symbol of harmony, prosperity, etc., was associated with Venus/Aphrodite, and the popular saying that "all things are eight". The Gnostic symbol, the 8-pointed star, was also associated with Aphrodite. // It seems that 9 had the value of an amulet, whereas 8 had the value/power of a talisman -- for the practitioners of magic.
 

amygdalE

Active member
In many parts of the world many people or magicians attempted to avert evil by either using amulets or uttering commanding dispelling words. In my native town (founded by Italic Greeks [Throurioi] in 204 B.C., in southern Italy, as I mentioned before) there is a magical spell , which I learned there before moving to New York, but it is in corrupt Latin form, while the local dialect is a bundle of Greek, corrupt Latin, and corrupt Italian words. Its contents make me suppose that it is a late version of a Greek spell:
"uottu e nove, fore mal'uocchiu" literally = "eight and nine, outside/away [be] the evil eye".
Fore = Latin Fore
Mal'uocchiu = male uocchiu < Lat. Malis/Male + Oculus
8 e 9 mean nothing to me, but I have an hypothesis: those words are an invocation to the 8 Chthonic gods and the 9 Celestial or Olympian gods -- not so classified by Hesiod, but probably by Dorians.
The Celestial gods would be , as in the oldest myths, Ouranos and Gaia, plus, from later myths, Selene or Artemis, Ares, Hermes, Zeus, Aphrodite, Chronos, Helios or the Solar Apollo. The Chthonic [terrestrial and underground] gods would be Hades, Poseidon [of fresh and salty waters], the triple-goddess
Hekate [originally the One Below, Khthonie herself; Hekate Phosphoros in Hades; but also identified with Selene/Artemis], the Chthonic Apollon or [Thessalian] Haplos, and two others: Demeter, the mother of grain vegetation, personified as Kore, and Kore, who after Hades' abduction, was identified with Persephone.
So it seems.
On reading the Wikipedia article about Magic, I learned that Agrippa , a German Renaissance man, wrote about many kinds of magicians and of magic, such as those we now call illusionists (doing tricks with playing cards, etc.), astrologers, sorcerers, "philosophers of nature" who make inferences about God from their observations of nature, etc. Interestingly, the magicians pray to, or invoke, gods or spirits for assistance. Thus, there is a discourse about the spirits: The Hebrew spirits (angels and archangels) are not to be confused with the "Olympian Spirits", namely the Greek Gods. The number of these Gods that are invoked in magic may be 12 or 7 or 14. I haven't seen any listing of 9 Olympian gods, who, at any rate, are always a mixture of what I called Celestial Gods and Chthonic Gods. The only "8 and 9" magic act or trick is about an 8-card and a 9-card of the same color, which have nothing to do with Spirits. // All in all, this article suggests that my hypothesis about the invoked gods is historically plausible.
 

ZEUS re-appraised

We know the many myths about him and we fear his thunderbolts, but now science reveals his benevolence. THUNDERSTORMS are needed by the rain forests and to prevent deserts. LIGHTNINGS change the air nitrogen into N oxides, needed for agriculture. THUNDERS , fill in........................

The Muses of Greek Mythology?

I have been studying more about Greek mythology lately and I bumped into information about the Muses. It seems like there is some conflicting information, especially regarding their names and functions. It could just be that there's not a lot online.

Can anyone recommend a good source to get Information about them, or maybe even a book I can read?

Information about Delos in Greek Mythology?

I am interested in visiting Delos. It's so fascinating! I love learning about Greek Mythology and I wonder if Delos has ties to Greek Mythology? This is a bit I found about Delos from the Wikipedia page:

Delos had a position as a holy sanctuary for a millennium before Olympian Greek Mythology made it the birthplace of Apollo and Artemis. From its Sacred Harbour, the horizon shows the three conical mounds that have identified landscapes sacred to a goddess (it is predicted that the deity's name is Athena) - in other sites: one, retaining its Pre-Greek name Mount Synths (Mount Kynthos), is crowned with a sanctuary of Zeus.

Would love to learn more, if anyone can point me in the direction of some good resources!

Mythological Places in Greece to Visit?

I didn't know if I should put this here or in the travel forum but I am curious... where should I visit in Greece if I want to be in touch with Greek Mythology? I understand that there are some notable places. Here is a list of what I have come up with. Can you think of anything to add?

  • Mount Olympus - pretty fun that it is a real place!
  • Cave of Zeus in Crete - where supposedly he was raised
  • Archeron - you can actually visit the river mentioned in the stories, as being a gateway to the underworld?
  • Delphi - where the fabled oracle did her thing!
I can't think of anything else....

How old was Icarus when he died?

Hi everyone! I'm new here :). I'm trying to write a story about Daedalus and Icarus, but consulting several sources, I figured out none of them mentioned Icarus' age. In latin he is referred as "puer", which means a boy between 7-17 years old, so he surely is on the young side. I was just wondering if he was a pre-adolescent (12,13) or a bit older such as 15 or 16. It's a little difference, but it really influences the maturity of the kid. If anybody knows, any help would be very appreciated :))
ps: sorry if my english isn't perfect, I'm actually italian lol
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