21 - 22 of 22 Posts
A Retrospection
In an earlier post in this thread, I stated that the word Melissa is an epithet or [feminine] descriptive adjective that was used as a noun, as the name of a certain insect, since I took the ending "-issa" to be an adjective maker or mark like -ikos [English "-ic"] and other
voicings/vocables. But I realize that it can simply be the feminine gender form of any kind of word, possibly along with "-issos" and "-isson". For instance, a man is a kratOr but the female counterpart is a kratorissa. These two Greek words are nouns, just as are the Italian Principe and Principessa [Prince and Princess].
While discussing "melissa", I thought of the word "larissa", which, as I then found out, is actually the Greek word "larisa", the name of various ancient Greek cities. I had wandered whether the word is an adjective and whether there is the masculine "*larisos". No, for Larisa is a noun, which, says a dictionary, means or has the sense of "fortress". On the contrary, I think that the noun Larisa was formed out of the word Laris, an adjective that means, according to Liddell-Scott, Pleasant (to the eyes, ears, tongue), hence Lovely, Sweet, and the like. Hence I presume that "Ialyssos" (considered in our Rhodes Forum) is a masculine noun and that its "-yssos" is from the past participle of the verb "luO".
 
If you're a modern Greek speaker then ancient Greek will really improve your modern Greek. Many of the words used today are ancient Greek, and some of the expressions used are ancient Greek.

Speaking of latin, some words are Latin- e.g. the word for sugar in Greek is zaxari (ζάχαρη) which comes from zaccharo, and the word for honey in Greek is meli (μέλι) which comes from the Latin word mel
Hallo, Ellina,
You spoke of the derivation of two Greek words, and I have already dealt with "meli". Now I wish to deal with "zakharE". [By the way, your transliteration into the Roman alphabet is wrong since the Roman "x" represents the sound "ks", not "kh", even though the two letters look almost the same. Moreover, you wrote the "i" in order to express the way you pronounce the Greek eta, but I wrote the big "E" to transliterate the eta, rather than the small "e", which for me transliterates an epsilon.
The word "zaccharo" is not a Latin word; it looks Italian (possibly Venetian), because it is almost the same as the standard Italian word, "zucchero". Here the h is not a phoneme; it is simply an indicator that the c behind it has to be prononced like a k, otherwise it is pronounced as in the English word "cheese". Therefore the h in "zaccharo" is unnecessary, as in "accademy".

Enough about orthography. Now I wish to say that you (or someone else) recognized that "zaxari" and "zacchero" are COGNATE words, that is, that they are names of one and the same thing, namely that which in English we call "sugar", and that they have the same or almost the same sound. But then we should realize that the English word "sugar" is also a cognate word.
You claim that the Greek word in question comes from a Latin word (which historically happens to be "saccharum"), probably because it is a cognate of your Greek and because modern Greek is a language younger than Latin. Might the Latin word come from the Greek (the classical Greek) word?
To begin with, the Latin word is spelled with an H, precisely because their CH was a transcription of the Greek X . So, we can reconstruct a Greek-like word: *sakXarum. Its -arum is a traditional variant of the Greek -aron (for a singular neutral word). Therefore, the reconstructed word should be *sakXaron.
Believe it not, I searched the Liddell-Scott (Classical)Greek-English Dictionary [online], which lists words present in ancient Greek literature, and I found:
-----------[ Ho sa`kkhar (genit. sa`kkharos). Also: sakkhari, sakkharis, sakkaron. It = sugar, which was made from Indian cane or palm. Cf. Sanskrit "sa`rkara". ]----------------------
Presumably the Indic name was imported into Greece in ancient times and slightly modified. It denotes a sweet white stuff, but nobody says what it means, such as "sweet stuff" or "honey-like stuff". The Greek [as well as the Latin] "-ar(os)" has various senses, as in Honorary, Secondary, Voluntary, etc. These are adjectives that, like "sweet white", express what a stuff is or does or undergoes. Maybe we can think of a suitable aro-adjective.
 

Information about the Battle of Marathon

I'm planning a trip to Greece later this year, and one of the places I'm really hoping to visit is the site of the Battle of Marathon. I've read the basic history and know it was one of the most important battles of the Persian Wars, but I'd love to learn more before I actually stand where it happened.

For those of you who have visited Marathon or have studied this period of Greek history, what details or stories do you think are especially worth knowing? Are there any books, documentaries, or articles you'd recommend beforehand? Is there anything at the site that many visitors overlook or don't fully appreciate without some background?

I'd really like to understand not just the battle itself, but why it became such a defining moment in Greek history. Thanks in advance for any suggestions!

Transition from myth to recorded history in Greece?

I’ve been thinking about the transition from myth to recorded history in Greece, and where that shift really begins.

So much of what we associate with early Greek history comes to us through myth, stories of gods, heroes, and epic events that clearly weren’t meant as factual records, yet still carry cultural and historical weight. At some point, though, we start seeing attempts to document events, places, and people in a more deliberate way.

I’m curious how others understand this transition. Do you see myth and history as clearly separate phases, or more as overlapping ways of explaining the world? Figures like Homer, Hesiod, and later historians seem to sit somewhere in between storytelling and record-keeping.

What do you think prompted the move toward written history? Was it political organization, trade, literacy, or something else entirely? And how much of myth do you think still shaped the way early historians understood and recorded their past?

How Democratic Was Athenian Democracy?

I’ve been studying the democracy of Athens lately, and I find it fascinating that such an influential system didn’t actually last very long in its original form. It’s often described as the birthplace of democracy, and yet when you look closely, it seems both groundbreaking and limited at the same time.

On the one hand, the idea of citizens participating directly in decision-making was radical. On the other hand, citizenship excluded women, enslaved people, and foreigners, which dramatically narrowed who had a voice. It makes me wonder how “democratic” it really was by its own standards, let alone ours.

I’m also curious how stable it truly felt at the time, given the political upheavals and eventual decline.

For those who’ve studied this period more deeply, how do you interpret Athenian democracy? Do you see it as a bold experiment that laid the groundwork for modern systems, or as something far more fragile and constrained?

Fall of the City States (Polis)

I’ve been reading more about ancient Greek history lately, and something struck me — we always hear about the rise of the polis and how important city-states like Athens and Sparta were, but I don’t see as much discussion about how that system actually declined.

What led to the fall of the polis as the dominant structure in Greek life? Was it mainly due to constant warfare like the Peloponnesian War, or did larger powers like Macedon gradually make the independent city-state model obsolete?

I’m especially curious about whether this was a sudden shift or more of a slow transition over time. Did people living through it even realize the polis era was ending?

I’d love to gather more insight on this. Greek history is a big interest of mine, and this feels like an important piece I haven’t fully understood yet.

Most forgotten period of Greek history?

I was in Crete once eating at a restaurant and there was a pile of artifacts heaped - broken pottery shards, etc. The restaurant told us that they were going to throw them out. I said, but they are artifacts, why?! They said that no one cares about that time period the artifacts came from - something about an Arabic occupation.

I thought it was interesting and it stayed with me nearly two decades later. This is clearly a forgotten period of Greek history. Does this happen a lot in Greece? Got me thinking about Greek history and what else may be forgotten... Would love your thoughts.
Share and discuss Greek history!

WorldwideGreeks.com is a free online forum community where people can discuss Greek food, travel, traditions, history and mythology.
Join Worldwide Greeks here!

JOIN COMMUNITY FOR FREE

LOGIN TO YOUR ACCOUNT
Back
Top